All Clud / Dumbarton Rock

All Clud  / Dumbarton Rock
All Clud / Dumbarton Rock

Thursday, 19 May 2016

Cardurnock NY175585 and Dornock NY230655,



Cardurnock NY175585 north of SIlloth. Cardrunnock 13th C, , Cardrunnok(e) 1387, Kardrunoc 13th Century, Cardrunock 1363, Caronock 1366, Cardirnoke 1437, Cardornoc(k).

PNCu p.,123-4

The elements are Caer "fort" or "stockaded farm" (Hicks, 2003). Hicks discusses the second element from Cumbric equivalent of Welsh dwrn "fist", so dyrnog "fist like". The Irish cognate dornach "thick as a fist". Welsh dwrn is not used to mean pebble, stone according to the GPC.

The suggestion is that caer was made of fist sized pebbles. PNCu refers to an excavation of a (Roman) fortlet made of fist sized pebbles, which are such a feature of the beaches on the Solway coast. Though Cardurnock is salt marsh.

Cardurnock is pretty much just a farmhouse and therefore supports Hick's view that caer in Cumbric did not mean fort necessarily (though sometimes it does refer to a ruined fort cf. Caermote, or a city - Carlisle.


Dornock NY230655, near Annan. Dronnok 1325, Drunnok 1377. Again a coastal site just the other side of the Solway from Cardurnock. Again, muddy salt marsh.
Dornoch ~ Dornock NN885185, in Perth & Kinross on the banks of the River Earn south of Crieff. This could be from Pictish *dornog or Gaelic dornach presumably both with the same meaning.


Dornoch NH804888 again by the sea, again in an area where there was P-Celtic Pictish before being overlain by Gaelic, so again either *durnog or Gael. dornach. "Pebbly Place", though the beach is pretty sandy here.


Watson discusses this element (Watson, 1926: 488)and he mentions Durnomagos in Gaul "Pebbly Plain", Dundurn near Loch Earn NN709228 "Fort of the Fist" - a very similar name to Cardurnock, possibly with the same reference to fist sized stones that made up walls? Apparently the dornagan singular dornag meant "hand stone" that could be used in battle. He cites Dornoch in Sutherland, Dornach on Loch Nevis, Dornoch Point in Cowal, and more.


In Ireland, we have Annadorn (4665465) near Downpatrick - Áth na nDorn "ford of the fists" and McKay notes that dorn might mean boulder but says that in Co. Down, dorn is applied to a rocky causeway or a shallow stretch of water (McKay, 2007). The online Irish place-names site says it is Eanach Dorn "Marsh of Fists" ? a bog with big stones?


In Wales we have - Rhos Dyrnog SH827006, east of Machynlleth in Powys - Rhos Drynog on OS maps, both old and new. However local businesses and megalith websites (Maen Llwyd) use Rhos Dyrnog. This could be Rhos Draenog "Thorny Moor" or "Rhos Dyrnog" Moor with Large Stones, if dyrnog "having fists" was used this way in Wales.

There is Clwch Dernog, SH337864 Clwch Dyrnog (1773) on Anglesey near Llanddeusant which according to Gwenogvryn Evans was previously Cnwch Dyrnog. Nearby are Bryn Dyrnog and Bodernog (< Bod Dyrnog?) So a conical hill with large pebbles/boulders?? It is a small round hill rising to 52m from surrounding marshland.

There is a river Afon Dwrnudon just outside Llanuwchllyn which flows through a hamlet, Dwrnudon. The Mellville Richards Archive gives historic forms as Rhyd Dwr yn y don 1754, Dwr-yn-udo ("Water which groans!"), Avon Dwrnydon 1700, Twrnydon 1700, Dwrnudo, n.d., Dol Dwrnydon, 1607, fl. dwer anudon usque hederiniaun 1191.

The Melville Richards Archive also gives Carreg y Dwn near Llangernyw which is 1638 was Carreg y Dwrn "Rock of the Fist", and Castell Cidwm near Betws Garmon which is also recorded as Castell Cidwrn. Maybe from Cildwrn - lower side of the fist? Used figuratively?

Anyway that's enough fun with Celtic fists for tonight.

…Caer Ddyrnog piau hi ar gyfer Cardurnock, heb os nag oni bai


Solway Coast south of Allonby.  "Dyrnau" ar y traeth ger Trefalun.

No comments:

Post a Comment